home decoration stores nyc

>> from the library ofcongress in washington dc. >> bonnie benwick: so, chuck fischeris here in the lovely design tie, which i thought he designedhimself but he says not. he's a new york designer andpainter with about 10 previous books to his credit, manyof them pop-up books. you can find his work in the cooperhewitt national design museum. he's designed china andcrystal patterns for lenox. and what i really like about your2015 white house pop-up book is that it's got individual hangingchandeliers when opened up,

it's really fascinating to me. mark ramsdell, here at my farright, has been a pastry chef and instructor formore than 30 years and he was an assistant pastry chef at the white house duringthe clinton and bush years. he was a student of chefmesnier's he meet him in 1980 at l'academie de cuisine, which isour premier professional culinary academy here in the dc area. and he later became head

of that school's pastrychef program himself. so, he's been collaboratingbasically, he says carrying chef mesnier'sthings around for many, many years. he lives in bethesdaand he recently, i think they both collaboratedon, if facebook is right, the 70th wedding anniversary cakefor jimmy and rosalynn carter. >> roland mesnier: correct. >> bonnie benwick:pretty impressive. so, save your questions about that.

and then of course, chef mesnierhimself has been, i think, in 2004 you participated in thefestival when it was out on the mall and talked about your"dessert university" book, which at that time, i guess, you hadput together while you were working in the white housein his spare time. let's see, he's won 18 goldmedals, 4 silver and 3 bronze for his pastry creations incompetitions around the world. he's a member of theacadã©mie culinaire de france and the french legion of honor,which she earned in 2005.

he's inducted-- he was inductedthat same year into the chocolate and pastry hall of fame, like great. i didn't even knowthere was such a thing and it makes me happyto know there is. he was awarded thedoctorate of culinary arts from their prestigious johnson andwales university in south carolina. and this would be your seventh book? >> roland mesnier: yes. >> bonnie benwick: so,it kind of does it all.

what's really fun is justto listen to him speak. so, i'm going to make sure thathe has a chance to do that. and now, i'm turning itover to chuck fischer. >> chuck fisher: thank you. thanks bonnie. it's great to be here at thenational book festival by the way, especially to share thestage with chef mesnier and ramsdell, chef ramsdell. and i'm going to talk a little bit--

of course, i'm going totalk about our new book. all right is this going to be on? the powerpoint? yeah, there we go, "the gingerbreadwhite house pop-up book". and-- but before we get to that,i'm going to talk a little bit about pop-up books in general. and so, my-- i've donethree pop-up books with the white house as a theme. this is my first bookpublished by rizzoli in 2004.

and as bonnie mentioned, this isthe book that was published in 2014, actually by applewood pressand this is what i designed and created as a doll house. so, when you turn the book aroundand you'll see in the video, that it's open like a dollhouse for the state rooms and everything is historicallycorrect and the chandeliers,they are hanging. and all the paintings arethere that are in the rooms and everything was vetted bythe curator at the white house.

so, that is a reallyfun, fun project. and there are punch out piecesas there are in the new book. so, i thought maybe this is a video that the smithsonian librariescommissioned and this is about how pop-up books are made. this was for the exhibit"fold, pull, pop and turn" at themuseum of american history. there we go. an author and artist andi design pop-up books.

it's my pleasure to take part in the smithsonian institutionlibraries exhibition, paper engineering, fold, pull, pop and turn at the nationalmuseum of american history. pop-up books cover many subjects. earliest known examples of books with movable date tothe 14th century. just as with those books, modernpop-up books are assembled by hand. from concept to printing,it takes about 18 months

to create a new pop-up book. to show you how pop-upbook is created, i'll take you through theprocess of creating one of the pop-ups in my book "angels". this book was inspired bymy fascination with angels and their images inart and literature. i start by conducting researchat museums and libraries such as the cooper hewitt nationaldesign museum in new york city. based on my research, i createan outline which includes ideas

for pop-ups, an overall visual style for the book and adraft of the text. once the outline is complete, i present it to myeditor for approval. i hire a writer toassist me with the text. the next step is to sketchideas for the pop-ups. this pop-up is based on thestory archangel gabriel. i collaborate with the paper-- >> roland mesnier: malfunction.

>> bonnie benwick: welove powerpoint, don't we? [ laughter ] well. should we try to wait? ok. >> chuck fischer: wait a second. >> bonnie benwick: while waiting. >> chuck fischer: ok. if not, i can just talk it through. let's just do that.

can i have my bag? i actually have somevisuals in my-- oops sorry. thank you. oh, here we go maybeit'll play again. i'm chuck fischer, an author andartist and i design pop-up books. with movable parts dateto the 14th century. of the pop-ups in my book "angel". ok. let's just get-- let'sjust do a little show and tell. so, where'd the video stop?

was it-- so, i comeup with the concepts. i'm an artist and an author. so, i come up with two sketches of each spread that'sgoing to be on the pop-up. and then, i send theseto a paper engineer who i collaborate very closewith a number of books. i've collaborated witha few paper engineers but primarily bruce foster,who was just going to be on the video talking abouthis side of the process.

but anyway. so, bruce takes my sketchesand i sketch them to look like they are three dimensional,the way i'd like to see them pop-up. then he figures out the engineeringand he does it all of by hand, of course, cutting paper. and then, he presentsto me a white dummy. and this is a pop-up of thewhite house, the new one-- for the gingerbread white house. and this is after thelittle pieces--

the patterns that he sends to mebeen refined and so that we know that the mechanics areworking, the engineering. the thing about pop-upbooks, they have to open and close, open and close. where like origami, it's just like you can createsomething and leave it up. so, it has to be very sturdy. it has to, you know, just be ableto do that, to open and close and then this is a packet and insidethe packet we have the book that's

written by chef mesnierand chef ramsdell and we have punch out pieces. and so, once i receive this-- and every piece that makes upthat pop-up has to be illustrated. and so, that's my next step. and i even happen to bringsome of my original paintings. i think, you can come backand look at them later. but, so this is what i do. i paint two scales, sometimesa little larger than scale

and that's one sideof the white house as it is the gingerbread house. and i didn't bring all thepieces that make up the pop-up but there's the portico flat and youcan imagine-- when you see the book, how it folds and it creates thethree dimensional white house. and one of the thingsthat we've done with this book is we includeda lot of presidential pets. and so, i illustrated many ofthe different presidential pets. of course, the americanflag and a snowman

and here are some morepet illustrations. but anyway, when you see thebook and you read the text that talks a lot about theirinteractions with the first families and their pets and it was fun toreally feature them in the book. and of course, they makethe pets and the decorations on the real gingerbreadwhite houses out of marzipan and many other thingswhich they'll talk about. and i get to paint them. so, anyway, it's very inspirational.

i learned a lot about thegingerbread white house from their book. it's just fantastic. beautiful illustration, acoffee table book which they'll, of course, be talking about. now, is the powerpoint like--will it go on beyond videos? because i have some images thatare-- i think will be fun to show. well, this is about the white househistorical association, this slide. they're the publishers of the book.

and it's just such a wonderfulorganization and, you know, it's through the sale of books likeours and of course, the christmas-- the official white housechristmas ornament that-- and of course, private donations. they go to so manyworthy causes, you know, having to do with the beautificationand as it says, the appreciation and enjoyment of theexecutive mansion. so, i've been-- hada long association with the white househistorical association.

actually, since my firstwhite house pop-up book and i created an exclusiveline of gift products on the white house neighborhood. and i've also designedfor the holiday cards. so, holidays well, i lovechristmas, i love the holidays. and three of my pop-upbooks are holiday theme. this is "christmas around the world"and then my best seller "christmas in new york" and my last christmasbook before this one is charles dickens' "a christmas carol".

so, you can-- i love,love the holidays. so, i was just thrilledwhen i got a call from the white househistorical association about-- with the idea of creating a holidaytheme book about gingerbread, the white house andthe-- and a pop-up. so, you can imagine,i said yes right away. and that's when then-- we'regoing to be-- he came-- well, i mean, i already knew chefmesnier, we've done book signings in the past and chef ramsdell, andi was-- and i knew their books.

but the book that theywrote with their memories and all the recipes was just so--that's where i just got inspired in how to create the art forthe gingerbread white house. this is a slide of some-- i also create interactivebook apps of holidays. i'm not-- that was a video so i'mnot going to even try that one. so, this is the coverof our new book, the "gingerbread whitehouse, a pop-up book". and it just came together ina very short amount of time.

like i said in the video, itusually takes 18 months for a book from conception to publication. but anyway, this year i heard fromthe association and we decided that we would do everythingpossible to make it happen for this christmas season. and we're thrilled that it's cometogether and we have the book. and this is-- that'sactually a christmas-- paper christmas ornamentthat's in the book. and anyone who's interested, ihave also created a little black

and white line drawing of thatornament so that take home and color and if you'd like topick one up, i have it, when we're signing books later. and of course, here's the book thatthey're going to be talking about. and this is-- on theright is the cover of the book within our pop-up book. and that's where theyshare their memories and those are my illustrations ofthese two very handsome gentlemen. and it's been a fun collaboration.

here's-- oh yeah, theseare the punch out. it also comes with punchout pieces like paper dolls, there's the presidentiallimousine the christmas ornaments, some of the pets, chef mesnier andyou know, other little objects. so, you can interactwith the actual pop-up. and there, you can seeall the pieces on display. and, you know, the goal was just tocreate holiday magic and joy and-- for the entire family and sothat you could bring, you know, the beauty and theexcitement that happens

at the white house every yearon a more sort of human scale. and maybe this book will becomeyour own holiday centerpiece. so, thank you. yes. i'd love to show the book. so, this is the book and thisis the pop-up gingerbread house. and again, you'll seewhen you look close, there's a lot of petssurrounding the house and there's the presidentialseal and gingerbread and little santa withthe american flag.

and then within here is thebooklet with the history and with the anecdotesand with their portraits. and also, two pagesof punch out sheets. oh there. here we go. and they have a little stand so thatyou can set them up and just play and learn about thehistory of christmas and gingerbread housesat the white house. thanks. [ applause ]

oh yeah. >> roland mesnier: good job. >> chuck fischer: thank you. >> bonnie benwick:thank you mark-- chuck. i'm going to be doing that allday, just to tell you right now, but i really can tell them apart. so, i feel like whoever issitting sort of in this line of side is going to be listeningto me more than seeing me. so, i don't usually standup for things like this

but maybe i guess i better. i have long been fascinatedwith pop-up books as i said. but really, that process of makingit come together with collaborators because it was just more than thedesign of course, it's the story that you had to tell aboutworking in the white house, about cooking there, about creatingthese incredible masterpieces year after year based oninput from who's living at 1600 pennsylvaniaavenue at that time. so, how do you-- let's startoff, chef mesnier, with you.

the differences in sort ofwinnowing down this very, very complete with recipes andhow-to's down to pop-up book size. i mean, where do you start? >> roland mesnier: well, it all--this is all with your mind if, you know, your mind isvery powerful as you know. >> bonnie benwick: yours is. >> roland mesnier: andbefore you create anything, it better appeared in your head. that's the first thing.

and you leave it beforeyou put it on paper. and the transition from makingthose huge gingerbread houses to the pop-up book, first ofall, come to mind children. you're doing it for the children. so, right away your mindgoes back, for me it's easy because i'm getting old, to goback when i was five years old, i do that everyday anyway. you understand thatthat's really how it is. you have to play the part and feellike one of those kids that comes

to washington for the first time and i've heard sometimes the familytalking about the white house and sometimes the pets and all that. and maybe that day,they will be lucky, one of the pet may be strollingthrough the field of the white house and everything andthat's how you take it. and my favorite part of thebook and in the booklet is when i give a tour to the children. it's fun. i really was givinga tour to the children.

and i can dream up a lot of thing,you know, sometimes a little crazy or sometimes a little down to earthbut you have to put it together and that's how you really dogo from those huge building to presenting something forlittle kids in much smaller scale by simply changing yourself toa grown up to a little kids. that's simple as that. >> chuck fischer: that's true. >> bonnie benwick: and chef, you'veworked with him such a long time, what's the sort of key

to collaborating onan effort like this? >> mark ramsdell: well,can i talk just about gingerbread houses in general? >> bonnie benwick: absolutely. >> mark ramsdell: ok. in both cases, the first book thatwe did, we wanted to do a book about large gingerbreadhouse construction. you've seen the ones at the whitehouse, you might have seen the ones that we did at mt. vernon.

they all weighed 300 to 500 pounds. very, very large and we wantedto bring it then to the book such that you couldactually do it yourself. so the first book we usedthe vehicle of the history of the white housegingerbread houses, is that. and then in the secondone, as chef said, through the eyes of children, right. but the thing that i wantedto say is that in both books, we made sure because we thinkit so important and so much fun

to provide enough materialfor how one would go about preparing thegingerbread house. we have a couple of basicthings that we live by. it doesn't matter how largeit is or how small it is, the principles are the same and the first principle is everysingle thing must be edible. no tv-- wood, pvc pipes,no chicken wire, no glue. everything has to be edible. so, the book includes a verygood recipe for gingerbread.

and if we're working with a500 pound white house model or if i'm working with childrenin school, it's always the same. the concept we're--we make gingerbread. we're basically making the wood. we could talk for a long time but i'll just give you acouple little simple things. we start with sheets of gingerbreadjust like sheets of wood. but gingerbread hasa lot of sugar on it. so, if you make yourgingerbread nice and flat and dry,

even if it's dry and hardon a day like today, humid, the sugar is hygroscopic, it's goingto start to absorb the moisture and sooner or later, the gingerbreadis going to become soft again. so, we take all of our gingerbreadsheets and we put a thin layer of tampered chocolate on the back. tampering is not a mysteryanymore, it's in the books. and that stiffens the gingerbread such that it could be rainingoutside and it has, several times, open the door, it's raining.

people come in andsplashing their feet around. and we also use tampered chocolateto glue the building together. all of the books you see useroyal icing or white icing but white icing dries outand becomes very brittle and then everything falls apart. the other part of the book,and then i'll stop talking, is that as pastry chefs, wehave sort of tools available to us, chuck mentioned it. we have marzipan and we haveroyal icing and we have chocolate

and we have rolled fondantand so forth and so on. so, that's where the concepteither at chef's size, the whole white house,or with a child. you simply say, let your mindgo and then when your mind goes, take a look at chuck'spop-up books, my god. then, you take a look at yourmarzipan and your chocolate and your royal andyou say, "what fits? what can i make out of what things?" you make your productionplan and three months later,

you're putting it together. all edible. >> bonnie benwick: all right. so, i'm leaping way, wayahead here, but i bet somebody in this room wantsto know what happens to those great gingerbreadhouses that you made every year. where do they go? did people in the kitchenget to break them down and eat them for family meal?

>> mark ramsdell: the mice. >> bonnie benwick: mice? >> mark ramsdell: wheredo they go chef? >> roland mesnier: well, idecided-- when i started to do-- let's back talk a bit, you know,the white house and gingerbread, when you got started,you got started at the white house to a german chef. many years ago, he did the classicala-frame house like it was done in germany for many years, it wasa small house, collectively small.

but they were nevertheless theywere very attractive, very nice. but when i started to do that,i want it to go much larger. i wanted to change many, many thing. and that was the first questionthe first year when i took it over. they said, "what you're going todo with that after christmas?" well, when i came to the houseand then i did just that on top of the roof and i saw how muchdust we had collected, i said, "no one is going to eat thathouse over my dead body." >> bonnie benwick: so--

>> roland mesnier: it willgo right down the trash. >> bonnie benwick:it's up for how long? it sounds like-- >> roland mesnier: one month. >> bonnie benwick: -- a month. >> bonnie benwick: yeah. >> roland mesnier: and remember,you have thousand and thousand of people going to those diningroom, you know, some sneeze, some do who knows what,what they do, you know.

you know by the way, did youknow the newest story now in california they inventeda whistle for the cow when they past wind,you can listen to that. i'm not kidding you. this is your government at work. so, i came up with a brightidea maybe we do the same thing at the white house wheneverybody goes through the line, we'll just give them a littlewhistle, you know, psst, psst, psst. and then, we'll know who passes gas

into the dining room,that's a side story. but it's true, what itold you is the fact. check it out. governor brown signedthe bill by the way, ok. it's not a joke. but that's where weare now and, you know, there's no other problem,i guess, to tackle. we tackle the wind that the coware passing in the field, ok. very good, very good.

now, the thing that-- i willcome back to reality now. the gingerbread book has a lot ofnew technique in it that you need to check out like we came upwith a gingerbread veneer. like let's say, if you have to dolike a tower something that curve, it's very difficult to bakewithout cracking or anything a piece of gingerbread that willbe just perfect looking like a tower or rounded area. so i-- >> bonnie benwick: you'retalking about this book, chef?

>> roland mesnier: i really was-- this is the year i didthe huge castle during the clinton administration. there were several tower andi really said, you know what, those towers how are wegoing to make them really, really looking like a tower? very nice and round andi tide several technique and i couldn't do it at all. so then i realize, i said, you know,"if i get a piece of gingerbread--

" kindly find me thegoddamn tower will you? >> bonnie benwick: ok. >> roland mesnier: thank you. so, i don't have much patience. patience doesn't comein big supply for me. the-- so, i realize that if i wouldbake the gingerbread particularly fully but not drying it and then after with a bandsaw cutting somevery thin pieces then you can bend them anyway you want and let themdry and then paint your chocolate

in the back and there you have. again, you haven't cheated,it's still good food all over, it's still nice andit look beautifully. oh, thank you very much. >> bonnie benwick: your welcome. >> roland mesnier:thank for your help. no. that's not a tower. that's the washingtonmonument you're giving me. so, just to say, sothat really came up.

and then, remember, the whitehouse those balcony, you know, the half round of the balcony. that was another thingthat was fairly difficult to make it look just perfect. and that veneer really,was the answer to that by using the gingerbread while it'sstill plywood, was cut to a band-- you need a bandsaw for that. you need a bandsaw. and-- sorry, i can'tget up because i'm tied

up to the seat here, you know. so, there you go. this was the castle that we didat the white house this year. and you can see severaltowers, round towers. and that's how we made those towersby using the gingerbread veneers. ok. so, there it is in this book. and there are other thing inthe book that was really a first that we applied this yearfor that gingerbread book. >> bonnie benwick: and whenyou two were working together,

did somebody do all the royalicing and somebody does the baking? or how do you sort of break up the-- >> roland mesnier: whoever has time. somebody need a job,some has the time. ok, that is the next step,that's what we're going to do. and whatever we don't carewho has time for what, right? we don't-- >> mark ramsdell: that is when it'scrunch time, there was a hint-- >> bonnie benwick:crunch time, i like that.

crunch time, good. >> mark ramsdell: andthe right place and-- >> roland mesnier: youknow, he's just-- we've-- >> bonnie benwick: are you makingthem in your own home kitchens when you have to do them for events? >> mark ramsdell: we usually willgo to a larger over to be able to-- because 300 pounds of gingerbreadis many full size sheets of gingerbread. the thing i wanted to say chef,about ideas and so, but instead of--

we said that there's no wordor whatever or whatever. go to the inside of the houses,the structural elements are just like in this buildingbut they're gingerbread. so, for example, if we needan i-beam for strength, we make it out of gingerbread. and just like plywood is strong bygluing thin layers of wood together, we do it with gingerbread. and that's how we do it. >> bonnie benwick: and chuck,are you working from photos?

have you gotten to see this-- does it help for you tosee anything in person? and for their likenesses too, dothey sit for you for the book? >> chuck fischer: well,they didn't sit for me but i had some wonderfulphotographs. and of course i know them. so-- >> bonnie benwick: they look-- >> chuck fischer: and the last timewe were together, we actually--

we had a picture takenand that was very helpful. and so, that's how icame up with their-- painting their portraitsfor the cover of the book. >> bonnie benwick: and you'reworking in sort of what size? >> chuck fischer: i'm workingsort of same scale as the book. very, very fine work. very, you know, thin, specialpaintbrushes, and my medium is-- i mix acrylic withlatex paint actually. and that gets-- i can-- thatway, i can get an opaque look

or i can also have it verywashed in water color. there's of course a lot of strongcolor in this because it is, you know, it's decorated withcandies and it is a holiday. so, you know, i got to work with-- as oppose to some of my moretraditional architectural paintings and some other work,this was really fun because it was reallybright and strong. and like both chefs said, it'sjust looking at all the photographs of gingerbread houses, they'vecreated other gingerbread houses

and then just being very familiarwith christmas candies and so, you know, i just usedmy imagination. and i didn't copy one oftheir houses, you know, we created a new onejust for the book. yeah. with elements, yeah, comingfrom all of their past designs. >> bonnie benwick: mark, did youhave something you wanted to add? >> mark ramsdell: you know, thething that just crosses my mind is that i suspect that most of you havedone something with gingerbread, but it's the concept that chuck hastalked about chef has talked about.

if you haven't done agingerbread house with a child, do it, and don't control it. i do a lot of gingerbread houseswith schools, first graders, second graders, kindergartners. they have fully functioningminds and i go in ahead of time because we know we're goingto make a gingerbread house but i don't tell them what it is. and i simply say, "whatare we going to do?" huddle. talk, talk, talk, talk,talk, talk, talk, talk, talk.

so, out of the blue, two yearsago, it's going to be a castle. now, i don't know what disneymovie they were watching, i don't know what book theywere reading, but, you know, when they said castle,you know what i said. "what's a castle look like?" up to the board, pens, youknow, whatever, whatever. and then, gives you chance totake it back, see if it'll come out in gingerbread, see ifit'll come out in marzipan. back to them, help them put ittogether, they have great ownership

in it and they reallylove what they produced. >> bonnie benwick: so,i guess you're not a fan of those kits thatare everywhere now? i mean, even for halloween,it's gotten really big, the whole gingerbread housething to put them together. >> mark ramsdell: you know, imean, they don't come decorate it, you got to figure out whatyou're going to do with them. so, it's a start. >> bonnie benwick: and--

>> roland mesnier: thosekits are great by the way. >> mark ramsdell: yeah. >> roland mesnier: i useit as a house for my cat. >> bonnie benwick: so,cats eat gingerbread? >> roland mesnier: they do. they do. there's a picture of sockshere on the book eating the real-- the big gingerbread house. >> bonnie benwick: i remember socks. he's in the book, there'sa picture there.

yes. >> bonnie benwick: in additionto the recipe for gingerbread, you can make a couple bigsheets and they really worked it down to a very simple equation. there's a couple of holidaycut-out cookies and those snowballs, you know, they're called lots of different thingsin different cuisines. i love them. they've got nuts and nut flourin them and they're covered in,

you know, powdered sugar. that those are alsorecipes that you can find in this booklet withinthe pop-up book. and they'll be singingthem at 2:30 in line 2. i forgot to mention that earlier,so knock that out of the way. >> chuck fischer: hey, bonnie. i forgot to mention. >> chuck fischer: with-- in thebook, we also have a scratch and sniff gingerbread pad.

>> bonnie benwick: that's great. scratch and sniff. >> chuck fischer: so,very excited about that. so, you get, you know, you can really immerseyourself, all your senses. much better than those perfumesamples they're used to, so. >> chuck fischer: yes. >> bonnie benwick:i think pretty soon, we're going to openit up to questions.

so, if you want toline up, don't be shy. in the mean time, in terms of peoplegetting started doing their own at home, you've got themasters, the experts right here. so, what would be like the keything you would tell people to do it at home? >> roland mesnier: well, startwith a small project, first of all. >> bonnie benwick: should they sort of do a small one before theywork up to the holiday thing? >> roland mesnier: yeah.

definitely. small project and don'tbe too ambitious, ok. i know people, they see a picture,oh, that would be beautiful. let's do it. no, slow down there, you know. >> mark ramsdell: you don'thave to do a whole house. >> mark ramsdell: youcan do a facade. >> mark ramsdell: you cando a shadow box, you know. >> roland mesnier: start with thatand then you can grow every year.

it's fun to-- every christmastime to improve your design from the year beforeand brining new thing, new twist into thehouse and all that. that's very exciting. i mean, bringing the children intothat process is really fantastic. it's the best thing you cando with the family, you know. >> bonnie benwick: i wouldimagine you guys have both judged gingerbread competition,what's the sort of craziest thing you'veseen made out of gingerbread?

>> roland mesnier:well, those competition, a lot of the time includetoo many fake stuff in it. and for me to be a judge ofthat, it's very difficult because that's notthe way i do thing. i don't care what it is i do. i like to have real food. use real food, you know. and when somebody bring insomething made out of gingerbread with pearl hanging out and stuff.

i say, "no, wait a minute. get those pearl out of here. ok. we don't want that. we don't want-- ." if you're going to makepearl, make them out of sugar. that's it. >> roland mesnier: itmay be very complicated, that sound very difficult. but actually, we are food people.

you want to make out a pearl, thenget into that kind of business, which is another line of work here. >> hi. i don't-- i guess it's on. a question for either chef,when you're baking gingerbread for the gingerbreadhouse or anything, do you ever have flops and--or even making pastries for-- when you're doing pastries for the white house dinners youhave flops and what happens? >> mark ramsdell: youalways have flops.

you always have flops. i taught for several years,chef taught for several years. in the avocational side of apastry, it was very interesting, people were drawn to taking classes because of the impliedprecision of pastry. pastry recipes are very detailedin terms of a quarter of teaspoon of this and seven minutes ofthat and so forth and so on. that's not the way the world works. chickens don't laythe same size eggs,

and i don't care who'soven you have, it bakes differently, you know. so, you just have to sort of-- withus, you just sort of have to figure out how your oven is baking that day or just make adjustmentsand work with it. >> roland mesnier:well, i never had flops. >> mark ramsdell: of course not. >> roland mesnier: i'vebeen trying for 50 years and it's a curse ladiesand gentlemen.

i just can't. >> mark ramsdell: no, buthe's renamed a lot of things. >> roland mesnier:it's just a curse. >> mark ramsdell: thatwasn't soufflã©, it's-- >> roland mesnier: but you know, myphilosophy on that is very simple. and you should try it, it works. don't try it with childrenwhen they're all around you but it does work. when you want to bake a cake orsomething, i know you're going

to be nervous, very nervous. you-- what you do, you get yourselfthe best bottle of wine you have in the house and you openit and you have a glass. and then you do your baking. and then, if all else fail,you finish the bottle. after a bottle of wine,everything looks good. even your spouse start to look good. so, do it, it works. trust me, it works.

>> mark ramsdell: andyou get a bourbon. >> bonnie benwick: go ahead. >> when you're working for ayoung first family, the obamas or the clintons maybe,do you create an edible or a decorative smaller gingerbreadhouse for the private quarters? and second question, do any of thechildren, the obama girls, chelsea, ever worked with you in the kitchen or observe you making thegingerbread house or anybody in the first family helpyou, michelle maybe?

well, yeah, may occasion,that's how it's done. depending on the ageof the children. i remember for amy carter,we always did a second house that she would have in her bedroomjust for herself and all that. she loved that. but then, some of thechildren, when i was there, who were past their age,so, we didn't do it. ok. children from thefamily, like chelsea, you mentioned chelsea clinton, shewas just in her age getting ready

to go to college, you know,university and everything and she did come to thepastry shop to learn how to bake and make some dessert. she brought even acouple friend with her. and she was a lot of fun. as a matter of fact, i was reallyamazed to see how much she knew because there were some finishedproduct on the table and stuff, and she called them all byname and knew what they were and knew what they were made of.

and i said, "wow," you know, i wasvery impressed for a young girl that age that she wouldknow that much. and a lot of them, at frenchterm, like frangipane and brioche and how many young people reallyknow that in this country, you know, unless you've been really affiliatedwith some baking or doing something. >> so maybe hilarywas baking cookies? maybe. >> roland mesnier:maybe, i will never tell. >> ok. thank you.

>> roland mesnier: but the-- we always wanted alsochelsea to do the dessert for the family that night. it will be a pie orsomething fairly simple and something she can usewhile she will be in college. and that night, she couldwill out whatever she did and tell her parents and whoever wasthere at the time, grandma, grandpa and then say, "listen, i did thatfor your dinner tonight," you know, and she was very proud of that.

>> that's really nice. >> chef mesnier, iloved your memoir. and my question is, whatdid the carters have as their 70th anniversary cake? >> roland mesnier: the-- yeah. that was-- chef markwas part of that too. the reason i wanted toget involved with that-- first of all, theycalled me for that. and i was very excited but isaid, you know, "i need to see

if mark is going to be part of it," because those project can bevery consuming and, you know. and i'm not-- i've been in thekitchen for 60 something years. so, you get the rest ofthe story and i'm kind of getting tired a littlebit sooner than i use to. so, i need all the help i can get. and then, so, we decided on makinga carrot cake because that was one of their famous cake and markhas a fabulous recipe for that with a nice-- a very good icing.

what was the icing mark? remember? that was thecream cheese and butter-- light butter cream,italian butter cream. and then we-- the decoration of the cake was a miniaturewhite chocolate-- white house chocolate house because there'd be anotherwhite house of course. and then, all the other decoration around the cake wasthe flower from--

>> mark ramsdell: magnolia. >> roland mesnier: magnolia madeof gum paste, magnolia flower which [inaudible] and all that. and then, a nice little plaque, happy 70th anniversarypresident and mrs. carter. and a very, very-- we'revery touched that we came to their function for that. that was in annapolis. and they-- i was amazed to see,also, how fantastic they were.

i mean-- >> mark ramsdell: 90 yearsold, first on the dance floor. >> roland mesnier: firston the dance floor. and you know, 10 good minutes. i said, "you know,that's an inspiration, there's no doubt," you know. so, it was a beautiful event, very,very nice and we were very glad and proud to be part of it. >> mark ramsdell: very nice people.

>> bonnie benwick: anybody else? i know we're coming up against theend here, but, you know, it's funny. speaking of the dessert thingand the white house, chef, i had to ask you, from the previousbook, you had said something like, in washington you had neverencountered so many people who would pass up a slice ofchocolate cake or crã¨me brulee. they were interested inlow fat, low whatever, you know, has that changed? >> roland mesnier: youknow, this is the--

the calorie thing in dessertis a soul subject sometimes. and it's a subject that people-- you know, i have a hard timetelling people that, yes, there are some low calorie dessertthat are still done with butter and cream and all that stuff. people have a problemunderstanding that. and i'm going to explain thatand if someone don't understand, they can go get my book "dessertuniversity", it tells you all about the low caloriedessert in this book.

you can eat dessert everyday. i mean, look, remember mrs. regan? remember when she cameto the white house? how slim she was? when she went back home,she was just as slim. mrs. regan was one of the firstlady that never skip dessert. ok. never, ever, ever. >> bonnie benwick: let'shear it for dessert. >> roland mesnier: but, but,

there was a certain styleof dessert i gave her. i understand very quicklywhat she wanted. she wanted dessert to be verytiny first of all, a couple spoon. she wanted them extremely pretty. mrs. regan hated whatshe called gray food. if you gave her a platewhere everything looked gray and dark, get that out of here. she wanted happy dessert. but whatever was on theplate better be food.

and don't use freshflower please, not for her. ok. fresh flower, she wouldsay, belong in the vase in the middle of the table. and she was right. she was right. if the pastry chef cannotmake his own decoration, then he has no businessbeing a pasty chef. that's my-- that's whati'm saying here, ok. do you understand wherei'm coming from here?

everything-- and i can show you athome, i have thousands of picture that never been published. thousands of picture of luncheon formrs. regan, luncheon for mrs. bush, this and that for ladies and so on. and you can see what i servedthem to the length i want to trade decoration for them, butall made out whatever pastry, ok. so, she wanted that,that was her dessert. couple little spoon, verytasty, very colorful. and if he didn't like it-- youheard about it, let me tell you.

because mrs. regan was a little bitlike me, she spoke her own mind. so, we went along very wellby the way because of that. but yes, you can havelow calorie dessert. dessert that are good for you. now, what most people have aproblem understanding is not what's in the recipe that count,it's how you work with it. i will give you a simple example. you all know about vanilla sauceor custard sauce, you know, that sauce that you getwith dessert sometimes.

now, that sauce, first of all, whenyou get it should be nice and thick. not because you put cornstarchin it, not because you put butter in it, not because youput heavy cream in it, because of the techniquethat you use to do it. i can make you a vanilla sauceusing [inaudible] and milk and that sauce willlook like it was made with whipped cream,with heavy cream. this is the technique i use. that's what most people donot understand still today.

everybody think that it has tobe this and that, cornstarch. no, no, no, no, no, no. this thing don't exist. i don't use stuff like that. and you can look through thebook, you get all the explanation. and this is a good subject totalk about because everybody wants to loose weight but stillwant to enjoy a great dessert. and there's no reasonwhy you cannot do that. >> bonnie benwick: chef mark, youhad something you want to add?

>> mark ramsdell: no, i-- no,i was fascinated with his-- >> bonnie benwick: you'rea good foil, i would say. all right. we've got to warp it up. thank you very much chuck fischer,chefs mesnier and ramsdell. and thank you very much audience. thanks for coming. enjoy the rest of the day. be sure and get the book.

it's really kind of--it's amazing to see. >> this has been a presentationof the library of congress. visit us at loc.gov.